Ôîðóìû ó Ëèðèêà

[jey]

Êëàäåçåì èíôîðìàöèè î òåõíîëîãèÿõ Äðåâíåãî Åãèïòà ñëóæèò ãðîáíèöà ñàíîâíèêà 18-é äèíàñòèè Ðåõìèðà, â ðîñïèñÿõ êîòîðîé èçîáðàæåíû ñöåíû æèçíè, áûòà è ðåìåñëè÷àíèÿ äðåâíèõ åãèïòÿí. Ñî âñåì ýòèì ìîæíî îçíàêîìèòñÿ çäåñü :

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/nobles/rekm/e_rekhmire.htm
http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~mah/wall_paintings_from_the_tomb_of_rekhmire.htm
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/egypt/explore/rekhmire.html
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/rekhmire.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~ib205/tt100.html
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/hierakonpolis/field/tomb9a.html
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Tomb+Of+Rekhmire
http://home.scarlet.be/~evdleene/photos_nobles.htm

Íî íàñ ýòî èíòåðåñóåò ïîñòîëüêó-ïîñêîëüêó, à âîò îäíà êàðòèíêà õîðîøî ëîæèòñÿ íà êóëóàðíûå ðàçãîâîðû â ÷àòå î öâåòîâîé ãàììå âåðõíåãî âîëîñÿíîãî ïîêðîâà



Âîò òàêîé âîò äðåâíååãèïåòñêèé âüþíîø

[irmy]

Íó, òàêîé òèïè÷íî åãèïåòñèé áëîíäèí (êðàéíèé ñïðàâà)
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/rekhmire.htm

[jey]

Ïðîäîëæó äëÿ AL`à îòñþäà
î õèìàíàëèçàõ.
Ïîñìîòðåë ó Ëóêàñà, îí ïðèâîäèò ðåçóëüòàòû àíàëèçà ïîðÿäêà 20-òè âñÿêèõ ïðåäìåòîâ, íî íå äàåò äåòàëüíîãî, õîòÿ ìíîãî ðàññóæäàåò î ïðèñóòñòâèè ñóðüìû è òåëëóðà.  îñíîâíîì êîëåáëåòñÿ ñîäåðæàíèå çîëîòà è ñåðåáðà, ïðî îñòàëüíîå óêëîí÷èâî íàïèñàíî – íå îïðåäåëåíî.Òàê ó íåãî âûãëÿäèò:



Òà æå ïèê÷à ïîáîëüøå


Ðàññóæäåíèÿ åãî:

The gold industry in Egypt was revived some years ago and, although it has now died down again, 84,074 ounces of fine gold ofa value of over 357,914 sterling were extracted during the eighteen years from 1902 to 1919 inclusive, but during the following eight years, from 1920 to 1927 inclusive, only 2,867 ounces of a value of 13,106 were extractcd. Mining was discontinued, not because the gold was exhausted, but on account of the difficulty and cost of the work.
In view of the large amount of gold obtained in modern times and of that still remaining, there cannot be any doubt that the gold from the local mines provided most of the gold used in Egypt anciently, especially during the earlier periods, and that it was even sufficient to permit of export, as is proved by the El Amama letters. Naturally, however, whenever possible additional gold was levied as tribute or taken as one of the fruits of victory after war, since it was a valuable and desirable metal to possess. The ten gold ingots weighing 6.5 kilograms of Twelfth Dynasty date found at Tod in Upper Egypt were probably presents from abroad.
Petrie's statements that 'The Asiatic gold was certainly used in the first dynasty, as it is marked by having a variable amount of silver alloy, about a sixth', and that 'Gold from the Ist to the XIIth dynasty averages 16 per cent of silver, which marks it as Pactolan and not Nubian', are based on a misconception of the nature of Egyptian gold, which always contains silver and often 16 per cent or more, as will be shown later. Petrie says also that in the Second Dynasty gold 'had antimony in it, which suggests a Transylvanian source, the telluride of gold and antimony'. This has reference to the sard and gold sceptre of Khasekhemui, which was found by him at Abydos. Peake and Fleure, elaborating Petrie's statement, say '. . . a fragment of gold, found in the tomb of King Khasekhemui . . . has a red antimoniate crust. Antimony combines with gold, so far as is known, only in the presence of tellurium, and the only region in the Old World in which gold and tellurium occur mixed is within the ring of the Carpathian mountains. The only rich gold-field within this ring is in Transylvania, where gold has been worked at least from Roman times onwards. . . . Meanwhile we note the possibility that gold from Transylvania found its way to Egypt about 3000 B.C.' Peake, writing later, is slightly more definite and says that 'Gold from Transylvania seems to have reached Egypt before the close of the 2nd dvnastv.' Heard repeats this statement in a still stronger form. Myres, in referining to this gold,1 makes two slips, one in calling the ingredient that was found in the gold tellurium instead of antimony, there being no evidence that the gold contained tellurium, and the other in terming it a 'high percentage', whereas no statement of the proportion in which the antimoiry occurred has been made.
Since the origin of the early Egyptian gold is an important matter, these various statements about a possible Transylvanian source may be examined. Petrie says that the gold in question contained antimony, which is not doubted, as it is understood that the analysis was made by Dr. Gladstone. The proportion in which the antimony occurred, however, is not given, which is to be regretted, since this information would have been. valuable, but presumably it was present only in small amount, possibly as a trace. An ancient method of refining gold (how ancient is not known) was by means of sulphide of antimony,which was veryliable to leave a little antimony in the gold, though, as this method was certainly not practised as early as the Second Dynasty, this does not explain the antimony in the particular gold under consideration, but it does show that the presence of antimony in gold is no proof that the gold was obtained from Transylvania.
The statement that, so far as is known, antimony combines with gold only in the presence of tellurium, is also misleading, since antimony alloys readily with gold in practically all proportions without the help of tellurium, and no evidence can be found that antimony ever forms a red antimoniate of gold.
That the gold in question was obtained from Transylvania and, therefore, that gold, especially m the form of such an ore as gold telluride, was being worked there and traded to Egypt (a country where gold occurred in abundance and as well known at the time) even in small amount, as early as the Second Dynasty (about 2800 B.C.) is so improbable that it may be disregarded. Moreover, gold telluride is grey in colour and therefore not like gold in appearance and hence probably was not known until a comparatively late date. Also it is a difficult ore from which to extract gold. And finally the gold telluride from Transylvania does not contain antimony.
There are written records of gold being brought to Egypt from the South in the Twelfth Dynasty, but no record can be found of gold having been brought to Egypt from the North before the Nineteenth Dynasty. The places mentioned as sources of gold are as follows:

South: Twelfth Dynasty (Coptos; Nubia); Eighteenth Dynasty (Highlands; Karoy; Coptos; Kush; South Countries); Nineteenth Dynasty (Akita; God's Land; Karoy; Punt); Twentieth Dynasty (Edfu; Emu; Coptos; Kush; Malachite Country; Negro Lands; Ombos).
North: Nineteenth Dynasty (Libya); Twentieth Dynasty (Asia); Twenty-second Dynasty (Khenthennofer).


The results of the analyses of various different spedmens of gold from ancient Egyptian objects will be found in the Appendix, from which it will be seen that the percentage of gold varies from 72.1 (17 carats) to 99.8 (23.5 carats). Mrs. Ransom Williams gives the fineness of the better quality of ancient Egyptian gold jewellery as ranging from 70.8 per cent (17 carats) to 91.7 per cent (22 carats), but mentions specimens as low as 13, 12 and 9 carats respectively.
Thomas gives the results of the assay of five samples ofgold from modern Egyptian mines as ranging from 84.0 per cent of gold (20 carats) to 90.3 per cent (21.5 carats), assuming silver to have been the only impurity. A very considerable number of other results taken from the actual working on a large scale of the six principal modern Egyptian mines varied from 76.0 per cent (18.2 carats) to 86.0 per cent (20.6 carats), again assuming silver to be the only impurity.
Gold in the form of large rings, believed to have been alluvial gold from Abyssinia, received at the Egyptian Government Assay Office was about 91.7 per cent (22 carats) pure, and gold bars received for assay from a mine in the eastern desert were about 83.3 per cent (20 carats).
The principal impurity, and sometimes the only one of hn.portance, in Egyptian gold is silvcr, with occasionally a little copper and a trace of iron.


Ïðî î÷èñòêó:

Gold Refining
It is sometimes stated that the Egyptians knew how to refine gold before the New Kingdom, and even as early as the Eleventh or Sixth Dynasties, though it is not clear on what evidence such statements are based. Judging from the results of the analyses of Egyptian gold objects, gold was not purified or refined until about the Persian period (525 to 404 B.C.), and the various qualities of gold mentioned in the Harris papyrus and other texts of the Twentieth Dynasty and later almost certainly refer to different grades of native gold rather than to gold refined or purified in any way.4 In the second century B.C. Agatharchides describes a method of refining gold practised in Egypt by heating it with lead, salt, tin and barley bran, no provision, how-ever, being made for the recovery of the silver, which must have been lost. Towards the close of the Eighteenth Dynasty and onwards gold was sometimes debased by the addition of copper, and Petrie states that many of the finger rings of the late Eighteenth Dynasty 'almost verge into copper'. A ring of this nature, of late but uncertain date, analysed by me consisted of approximately 75 per cent of copper and 25 per cent of gold. A tube of what appears to be a gold-copper alloy is known from the predynastic period.


 ïðèíöèïå, íåëüçÿ ñêàçàòü, ÷òî äàííûå çàñåêðå÷åíû, ïðîñòî ìàëî êîãî èíòåðåñóåò äåòàëüíîñòü. Íàèëó÷øèé âàðèíàò äëÿ Âàñ – ñïèñàòüñÿ íåïîñðåäñòâåííî ñ òåìè, êòî ýòèì çàíèìàåòñÿ. Ñåé÷àñ ñàìûé ðåàëüíûé ÷åë â ýòîé òåìå – Äæåê Îãäåí. Ïðÿìîãî åìåéëà ÿ íå íàøåë, òîëüêî ñòðàíèöó åãî ñåìèíàðîâ. Ìîæíî ïîïðîáîâàòü ñïèñàòñÿ.

http://www.jpm-international.com/jeweltech.htm

Áèáëèîãðàôèÿ åãî :

http://www.jpm-international.com/bib.htm

ÇÛ. Ðåçþìèðóÿ î ïðîèñõîæäåíèè, âûñêàçàëñÿ áû ÿ òàê - îñíîâíàÿ ìàññà çîëîòà, áåññïîðíî, ìåñòíîãî ïðîèñõîæäåíèÿ, ÷òî íå èñêëþ÷àåò èìïîðòà îòäåëüíûõ ïðåäìåòîâ èç ðàçíûõ çàêîóëêîâ òîãäàøíåãî ñâåòà.

[Ñåâåð]

http://phorum.icelord.net/read.php?f=1&i=137635&t=137635

[jey]

[jey]

Çàãëÿíóë â âåòêó, ãäå Àë òùåòíî ïûòàåòñÿ âûêîëîòèòü õîòü êàêèå-òî êðóïèöû çíàíèé èç Ôîìåíêèñòàäîðà è ÁÑÝ ( òî ëè èç ëóæè, òî ëè â ëóæå - òàê è íå ïîíÿë ). Ñíà÷àëà ïîâåñåëèëñÿ, ÷èòàþ âåòêó, ïîòîì ñèëüíî çàãðóñòèë . Çàãðóñòèë èç-çà òîãî, ÷òî íà îñíîâå îäíîé âûêîâûðåííîé Ôîìåíêèñòàäîðîì öèôðû î òîëùèíå ñòåíîê çîëîòîãî ñàðêîôàãà Òóòàíõàìîíà è åãî âåñå îáìåí ìíåíèÿìè ñâàëèëñÿ â òàêóþ ñòåçþ, ÷òî ÿ ïðîñòî íå ïîíèìàþ, ÷òî èìåííî õîòÿò âûÿñíèòü.
Ëàäíî Àë è Ñòàíèñëàâ - ïûòàþòñÿ ðàçóçíàòü ÷åãî-íèòü, íî Ôîìåíêèñòàäîð è Ýíöèêëîïåäèÿ òî (âðîäå) äîëæíû çíàòü êàê àíòðîïîìîðôè÷åñêèå ãðîáû Òóòàíõàìîíà ( â ïðîñòîðå÷èè èìåíóåìûõ ìàòðåøêàìè) âûãëÿäÿò. Êàê âûñ÷èòàòü ïëîùàäü òàêîãî ãðîáà áåç òî÷íûõ îáìåðîâ - ñèå âåëèêàÿ çàãàäêà äëÿ ìåíÿ åñòü.


Âîîáùåì è ïî÷èòàòü è ïîñìîòðåòü :

http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/Egypt/03/kayal/kayal.htm

Tutankhamen’s coffin consisted of three different coffins. The outermost coffin was made of wood but the other three were solid gold and each one nearing the last was even more elegant than the one before it. There was also four deities that surrounded the four corners of the mummy and the tomb itself.



One of three nested coffins, the innermost one made of 296 pounds of troy weight gold. The body still lies in state in the outermost coffin, the only Pharaoh left in the Valley of the Kings.

***************

THE COLD COFFIN OF TUT-ANKH-AMEN The mummy of the Pharoah Tut-ankh-Amen rested within the innermost of three coffins of human form, which were enclosed within a carved sarcophagus of yellow quartzite. The two outer coffins are covered with sheet gold, the head and hands of the first being of solid gold. We show Mr Howard Carter (who, with the late Earl of Carnarvon, discovered the famous tomb in November 1922) at work on the third coffin, which is of solid gold. He is removing the consecration oils hardened by age into a pitch-like material.

Âîò ëè÷íî òîâàðèù Êàðòåð çà ðàáîòîé



Âîò äâà ïåðâûõ ãðîáà

The First Coffin of Tutankhamen

The Second Coffin of Tutankhamen

Âîò òðåòèé :



The Third Coffin
It is made of solid gold, weighs 110.4 kg (243 lbs) and is 188 cm (74 inches) in length. This coffin contained the mummy of the young pharaoh, covered by the famous mask. It was placed within a second coffin, made of wood covered in gold foil, which in turn was set within the first, outermost, coffin, also made of wood covered in gold foil.

*************

Âñÿêèå ññûëêè íà Òóòà:

http://www.topfoto.co.uk/gallery/tutankhamun/default.htm
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/198806/the.final.chapter-the.search.for.tutankhamen.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/tut.html
http://www.sis.gov.eg/tut/html/tut00.htm
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk/gri/4tut.html
http://www.ashmol.ox.ac.uk//gri/carter/HomePage.html#021c
http://tutankhamen.narod.ru/index.htm
http://echoesofeternity.umkc.edu/Sequins.htm
http://www.secker.fsbusiness.co.uk/tutankhamen.htm
http://www.magicmakers.com/egyptsite/egyptexhibit.html
http://www.proscreess.qld.edu.au/new_page_2.htm
http://www.archaeolink.com/Tomb_of_tut.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/tutstomb.html
http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~ancient/tut1.htm

[jey]

Ïî ïðîñüáàì òðóäÿùèõñÿ, õîòÿùèõ ( êàëàìáóð, îäíàêî - õîòÿùèå òðóäÿùèå ) ÿñíîñòè â âîïðîñàõ ãðîáîâ

ïîùó ãðàôè÷åñêèé îòâåò. È ðàçîáðàòñÿ ìîæíî è ýíöèêëîïåäèè ïîìîãó â íåëåãêîì äåëå îáìåðîâ



Åñëè íà êàðòèíêó êëèêíóòü - òî îíà ñòàíåò íàìíîãî áîëüøå ( êîëè÷åñòâî êëèêîâ íà ðàçìåð íå âëèÿåò).

ÇÛ. Îñòàëüíîå ïîòîì.

[irmy]

[irmy]

Ãëàâà 4
ÝÏÎÕÀ ÂÒÎÐÎÉ ÏÎËÎÂÈÍÛ XIV -- XVI ÂÅÊÎÂ ÍÎÂÎÉ ÝÐÛ
 ÈÑÒÎÐÈÈ <<ÄÐÅÂÍÅÃÎ>> ÅÃÈÏÒÀ. ÀÒÀÌÀÍÑÊÀß = ÎÒÎÌÀÍÑÊÀß ÈÌÏÅÐÈß
1. ÎÁÙÈÉ ÎÁÇÎÐ ÈÑÒÎÐÈÈ
18-É <<ÄÐÅÂÍÅ>>-ÅÃÈÏÅÒÑÊÎÉ ÄÈÍÀÑÒÈÈ
Çíàìåíèòóþ 18-þ äèíàñòèþ åãèïòîëîãè îòíîñÿò ê ïåðèîäó 1570-1342 ãîäû ÄÎ í. ý. [51], ñ. 254. Ñîãëàñíî íàøåé êîíöåïöèè, ýòà
äèíàñòèÿ ÿâëÿåòñÿ îòðàæåíèåì Îñìàíñêîé, òî åñòü Àòàìàíñêîé =
Îòîìàíñêîé, èìïåðèè âòîðîé ïîëîâèíû XIV -- XVI âåêîâ íîâîé ýðû. Õðîíîëîãè÷åñêèé ñäâèã ïðèìåðíî íà äâå òûñÿ÷è âîñåìüñîò ëåò!
×àñòüþ ýòîé èìïåðèè â òî âðåìÿ áûë è Åãèïåò.
Òðàäèöèîííî, â äèíàñòèþ âêëþ÷àþò ñëåäóþùèõ ôàðàîíîâ [51], ñ. 254 è [92], ñ. 272.
1) Ààìåñ,
2) ÀÌÅÍÕÎÒÅÏ I,
3) Òóòìîñ I,
4) Òóòìîñ II c Õàòøåïøóò,
5) ÒÓÒÌÎÑ III ÇÀÂÎÅÂÀÒÅËÜ,
6) Àìåíõîòåï II,
7) Òóòìîñ IV,
8 ) Àìåíõîòåï III,
9) ÀÌÅÍÒÎÕÎÒÅÏ IV, îí æå Ýõíàòîí -- IKHNATON [51], c. 254. Íå ÈÃÍÀÒÈÉ ëè, èëè ïîïðîñòó ÈÃÍÀÒ?
10) Òóòàíõàìîí, çàòåì Õîðåìõèá -- îäíî ïîêîëåíèå ÅÐÅÒÈ×ÅÑÊÈÕ öàðåé [92], ñ. 728. Òóòàíõàìîí <<â ëåòîïèñÿõ Åãèïòà ñ÷èòàëñÿ ôàðàîíîì íåçàêîííûì>> [92], ñ. 419.
Òàêèì îáðàçîì, ïî÷òè âñå ôàðàîíû ýòîé äèíàñòèè íîñèëè îäíî èç äâóõ èìåí: Àìåíõîòåï èëè Òóòìîñ. Ýòî ìîæåò îçíà÷àòü, ÷òî íà
ñàìîì äåëå èñòîðèÿ ýòîé ýïîõè ÿâëÿåòñÿ îïèñàíèåì, â îñíîâíîì,
äåÿíèé ÄÂÓÕ âåëèêèõ ôàðàîíîâ -- Àìåíõîòåïà è Òóòìîñà. Èñòîðèÿ
äðóãèõ áûëà, ïî-âèäèìîìó, ïî÷òè ïîëíîñòüþ çàáûòà, ïîñêîëüêó ÿðêèå
ñîáûòèÿ ïðàâëåíèé Àìåíõîòåïà è Òóòìîñà â ïàìÿòè ïîòîìêîâ ñî
âðåìåíåì çàñëîíèëè ñîáîé îñòàëüíûå áîëåå òóñêëûå ñîáûòèÿ.
È äåéñòâèòåëüíî, êàê ìû íèæå óâèäèì, ðàññêàçûâàÿ èñòîðèþ 18-é äèíàñòèè, Áðóãø îñíîâíîå âíèìàíèå óäåëÿåò Àìåíõîòåïó IV è
Òóòìîñó III. Ïîýòîìó èìåííî îíè ïðåäñòàâëÿþò äëÿ íàñ ãëàâíûé èíòåðåñ.
Îáðàòèì âíèìàíèå íà òî, ÷òî êàêèå-ëèáî, õîòÿ áû ïðèìåðíûå, ñâåäåíèÿ î äàòàõ ïðàâëåíèé ôàðàîíîâ âíóòðè 18-é
äèíàñòèè íà÷èñòî ÎÒÑÓÒÑÒÂÓÞÒ. Ïîýòîìó Áðóãø, ñëåäóÿ ñâîåìó
<<ìåòîäó äàòèðîâàíèÿ>>, ïðåäïîëîæèòåëüíî ïðèïèñûâàåò êàæäîìó èç íèõ
ïî 33, 3 ãîäà! Ñì. âûøå.
Ñåãîäíÿ ìû íå äîëæíû ñ÷èòàòü ñåáÿ ñâÿçàííûìè òàêîé <<õðîíîëîãèåé>>. Ïîýòîìó ìû âûíóæäåíû ðàññìàòðèâàòü 18-þ
äèíàñòèþ <<â öåëîì>>, òî åñòü êàê áëîê èç íåñêîëüêèõ ôàðàîíîâ,
ïðàâëåíèÿ êîòîðûõ è äàæå ïîðÿäîê êîòîðûõ âíóòðè äèíàñòèè íàì
ïîïðîñòó ÍÅÈÇÂÅÑÒÅÍ. Êàê ìû âèäåëè, ñïèñêè ôàðàîíîâ ìîãëè
ÏÐÎ×ÈÒÛÂÀÒÜÑß Â ÐÀÇÍÛÕ ÍÀÏÐÀÂËÅÍÈßÕ: êàê ñïðàâî íàëåâî, òàê è ñëåâà íàïðàâî. Îò ýòîãî ìîãëà âîçíèêàòü ïóòàíèöà â èõ ïîðÿäêå è
ò. ï.
Åãèïòîëîãè <<äàòèðóþò>> 18-þ äèíàñòèþ, ÿêîáû, 1570-1342 ãîäàìè äî í. ý. [51], ñ. 254. Ëþáîïûòíî, ÷òî çàìåíèâ, -- ÷èñòî ôîðìàëüíî! - â ýòèõ äàòàõ çíàê <<ìèíóñ>> íà <<ïëþñ>>, ìû ïîëó÷àåì äëÿ 18-é äèíàñòèè äàòèðîâêó ïðèìåðíî 1342-1570 ãîäû íîâîé ýðû. ×òî, êàê íè ñòðàííî, ïðåêðàñíî ñîîòâåòñòâóåò ÐÅÀËÜÍÎÉ ÅÅ ÄÀÒÈÐÎÂÊÅ, î êîòîðîé ìû áóäåì ðàññêàçûâàòü íèæå. Êàê ìû óæå ãîâîðèëè, âåðîÿòíî, ýòî ÿâëÿåòñÿ ñëåäñòâèåì òîãî, ÷òî ïåðâîíà÷àëüíî <<äðåâíå>>-åãèïåòñêèå äèíàñòèè áûëè êåì-òî ïðàâèëüíî äàòèðîâàíû ÓÆÅ ÏÎ ÝÐÅ ÎÒ ÐÎÆÄÅÑÒÂÀ ÕÐÈÑÒÎÂÀ, òî åñòü ïîñëå ñåðåäèíû XV âåêà í. ý. À çàòåì êòî-òî çàìåíèë â íèõ ñëîâà <<ÏÎÑËÅ Õðèñòà>> íà ñëîâà <<ÄÎ Õðèñòà>>. È îòïðàâèë ñðåäíåâåêîâóþ èñòîðèþ ôàðàîíîâ â ãëóáîêîå ïðîøëîå.
Ýòî è ïîíÿòíî -- âåäü ðåàëüíàÿ ýïîõà 18-é äèíàñòèè òÿíåòñÿ (ñîãëàñíî íàøèì ðåçóëüòàòàì) äî XVI âåêà ÍÀØÅÉ ýðû, à ïîòîìó â åå äîêóìåíòàõ ÓÆÅ ÄÎËÆÍÛ ÁÛËÈ ÑÎÄÅÐÆÀÒÜÑß äàòû ïî ýðå Õðèñòà. Èõ-òî òèõî è <<èñïðàâèëè>> òàêèì íåçàìûñëîâàòûì îáðàçîì.

"Èìïåðèÿ"
À.Ò.Ôîìåíêî, Ã.Â.Íîñîâñêèé
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Êèðèëë, ÷àñòü ôîòîãðàôèé íå âèäíî â ýòîé òåìå Âîññòàíîâèòü ìîæíî èëè ïðîïàëè íàâñåãäà ?

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